What should go into ItEN 3?

Discussion about the core rules - questions, clarifications and updates.

Tick any that you'd like to see in ItEN 3

Poll ended at October 6th, 2012, 9:58 pm

Exploding Sixes
3
17%
Advanced Rules for Allies
2
11%
Grit tests when leader dies
2
11%
Knockdown penalties (removal of)
2
11%
Costlier weapons: Grit penalty
3
17%
Errata and FAQ's for the 2nd Edition
2
11%
Weapon and Equipment attributes
4
22%
 
Total votes: 18

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Jodrell
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ITEN 3: Roadmap

Postby Jodrell » September 16th, 2012, 4:25 pm

Far be it from me to usurp Craig's status as benevolent dictator for ITEN, but it seems to me that we have enough errata, new rules, and revised retinues, that having a stab at version 3 might be worth doing.

If Craig is too busy, then I am quite keen to have a go myself. Something I'd also like to do is give the ITEN books a slicker finish, with a nice page design in keeping with the visual style of the Warhammer 40,000 universe.

The first thing to do is identify all the changes we need to make. The posts in this forum are a good starting point as there are a lot of suggestions that can be reviewed to see if they make the cut.

Is there a consensus that now is the right time?

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Craig
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Re: ITEN 3: Roadmap

Postby Craig » September 17th, 2012, 6:06 pm

Be my guest Jodrell. Always happy to let someone else do the heavy lifting :lol:
Cheers,
Craig.
"Youth and Talent are no match for Age and Treachery".

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griffit
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Re: ITEN 3: Roadmap

Postby griffit » September 17th, 2012, 9:53 pm

I am pro 3th ed, but I must add a keep it simple clause :D
As gamers we tend to make it all rather complex. The charm in ItEn for me is the same as what I loved in Kerunch and Space Fleet etc. 4 A4 papers give you all you need to play. (afterwards you can add different races, special ability's, ...)

Any way I'm prepared to help out :D
My "strong" point is more in the department of concepts and lay-out. But having seen several game systems I can voice an oppinion in that department aswell

Cheerz
griffit

ps; Come on Pascal ;)

Pascal Tognon
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Re: ITEN 3: Roadmap

Postby Pascal Tognon » September 20th, 2012, 11:30 am

As it wills Jodrell,

I very recently finished a rather comprehensive overhaul
on Iten, with more 'skirmish' actions in mind.
The game mechanic is still Iten,
but the rules are more streamlined.

The biggest changes are the points cost for the weapons and armour,
and the deletion of 'Knocked Down'.
Knocked down is a fantastic concept, but in a D6 system it is a big limitation.
In a D10 system it would be fantastic!

To penetrate Armour one has to roll equal or exceeding to the AV.
This was never clear in the Iten rules.
To pass a Grit Test one also has to roll even or exceeding.

More special abilities, upgrades, equipment and Psyker Powers have been added,
from 40K, Necromunda and Inquisitor.

In attach is the PDF file of version 1.0

C ya
Pascal
Attachments
Skirmish Mod.40K v1.0.pdf
Skirmish! Mod.40K
(1.14 MiB) Downloaded 179 times

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Jodrell
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Re: ITEN 3: Roadmap

Postby Jodrell » September 20th, 2012, 8:59 pm

Thanks Pascal, I'm assuming that if we rip offborrow anything from that PDF, you're happy for us to do so?

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What should go into ItEN 3?

Postby Jodrell » September 22nd, 2012, 9:58 pm

I'd like to hear from you guys about what changes we need to make in ItEN 3. This poll lists all the recent changes/errata that have been discussed on this forum: if you think something should go in, please select it. You can choose as many as you like.

Remember to check the specific forum topic to see what the change would mean!

The poll will run for 2 weeks, so make you choices now!

If there's something that hasn't been included or discussed, please raise it in this topic.

Pascal Tognon
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Re: ITEN 3: Roadmap

Postby Pascal Tognon » September 24th, 2012, 11:00 am

Goes without saying! :D
Feel free to do so.

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Re: ITEN 3: Roadmap

Postby Pascal Tognon » October 8th, 2012, 2:23 pm

Version 1.1.
Rules remain unchanged,
retinues have finally been completed.
Attachments
Skirmish Mod.40K v1.1.pdf
(1.16 MiB) Downloaded 182 times

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griffit
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Re: ITEN 3: Roadmap

Postby griffit » October 8th, 2012, 9:43 pm

First time i flipped trough this edition, great work pascal. Your best reincarnation so far.

Griffit

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Jodrell
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Re: What should go into ItEN 3?

Postby Jodrell » October 8th, 2012, 10:10 pm

Since I haven't seen any strong opinions to the contrary, all of the items in the poll are going into the first draft.

Thanks everyone for voting!

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Re: What should go into ItEN 3?

Postby Pascal Tognon » October 12th, 2012, 2:26 pm

Thanks Guido!
A copy will be in the Oberonn this evening,
before I set of to the KMK.
Couldn't make it tuesday,
midday's crab-salad sandwiches were fighting me :mrgreen:

C ya
Pascal

dokdaka
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Re: What should go into ItEN 3?

Postby dokdaka » October 13th, 2012, 5:39 pm

Hi everyone. I've been following this project on and off for awhile and finally decided to try and contribute a bit. This seemed like as a good a place as any to share ideas for the new edition. What I'd like to see:

1) increased granularity. I've seen some mention of moving to a d10 but I think switching to a d12 makes the most sense. This would require absolutely ZERO rebalancing - just double the relevant modifiers! I know my group will play this way regardless of the official rules but it just seems so easy and will allow slightly less significant bonuses and gradations. The only disadvantage I can see is that d12's are less common than d6's in the average household. However, I would be willing to bet a fairly large sum of money that 99% of the folks currently playing ItEN do in fact have a d12 or 2 lying around :)

2) More special abilities - especially for items and armour. I'm glad to see this on the above poll. I'm happy to lend my assistance in converting special abilities from various sourcebooks and settings. This will come into play especially for the generic version of ItEN.

3) psyker options! I think the current rules have the advantages of being simple and thematic in many cases. However, they don't really work for eldar or ork psykers. Orks should just have their heads pop - maybe along with a few of their nearby orky friends - and eldar simply don't have psychic phenomenon as far as I can tell. These options will be ESPECIALLY important for the generic version of the game. They could possibly be handled through special traits that keep the core rules simple while still allowing for thematic exceptions. I think more powers would be fun for psykers as well. Again, this is an area I'm happy to help with.

I hope this suggestions are constructive. I'm obviously new to this community and don't want to step on any toes but I read somewhere on these forums that nothing should be considered sacred. As I stated above I'm happy to help. It seems like simply coming up with a rough draft of the rules I proposed would be a good place to start but I'd like to check in with you guys before doing so :)

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Craig
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Re: What should go into ItEN 3?

Postby Craig » October 14th, 2012, 9:53 am

Hi Dok,

You are correct nothing is sacred. All constructive comments are welcomed and we are alos not averse to ne members pointing out that the Emperor has no clothes on either :D

Welcome aboard!
Cheers,
Craig.
"Youth and Talent are no match for Age and Treachery".

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Jodrell
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Re: What should go into ItEN 3?

Postby Jodrell » October 16th, 2012, 8:27 am

dokdaka wrote:Hi everyone. I've been following this project on and off for awhile and finally decided to try and contribute a bit. This seemed like as a good a place as any to share ideas for the new edition.


Welcome Dok, and thanks for getting involved!

dokdaka wrote:What I'd like to see:

1) increased granularity. I've seen some mention of moving to a d10 but I think switching to a d12 makes the most sense. This would require absolutely ZERO rebalancing - just double the relevant modifiers! I know my group will play this way regardless of the official rules but it just seems so easy and will allow slightly less significant bonuses and gradations. The only disadvantage I can see is that d12's are less common than d6's in the average household. However, I would be willing to bet a fairly large sum of money that 99% of the folks currently playing ItEN do in fact have a d12 or 2 lying around :)


The main effect of this would be to reduce the frequency of knockdowns: a model always has a 1/6 chance of being knocked down on 1D6, but this changes to 1/12 on 1D12.

dokdaka wrote:2) More special abilities - especially for items and armour. I'm glad to see this on the above poll. I'm happy to lend my assistance in converting special abilities from various sourcebooks and settings. This will come into play especially for the generic version of ItEN.


I definitely agree. However, I don't think we want to end up duplicating all of 40K into ItEN, so I think there should be a limit on the number of special abilities that get ported over.

dokdaka wrote:3) psyker options! I think the current rules have the advantages of being simple and thematic in many cases. However, they don't really work for eldar or ork psykers. Orks should just have their heads pop - maybe along with a few of their nearby orky friends - and eldar simply don't have psychic phenomenon as far as I can tell. These options will be ESPECIALLY important for the generic version of the game. They could possibly be handled through special traits that keep the core rules simple while still allowing for thematic exceptions. I think more powers would be fun for psykers as well. Again, this is an area I'm happy to help with.


Ay submissions will be gratefully received!

dokdaka wrote:I hope this suggestions are constructive. I'm obviously new to this community and don't want to step on any toes but I read somewhere on these forums that nothing should be considered sacred. As I stated above I'm happy to help. It seems like simply coming up with a rough draft of the rules I proposed would be a good place to start but I'd like to check in with you guys before doing so :)


I look forward to seeing your draft!

dokdaka
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Re: What should go into ItEN 3?

Postby dokdaka » October 16th, 2012, 7:10 pm

Jodrell wrote:The main effect of this would be to reduce the frequency of knockdowns: a model always has a 1/6 chance of being knocked down on 1D6, but this changes to 1/12 on 1D12.


I believe it is possible to increase the granularity w/o decreasing the frequency of knockdowns. For example, all we need to do is modify existing grit values using the following formula: 2x-1. We can keep point values identical and introduce intermediate values. As long as there is no grit value lower than 3 the d12 will not increase the resilience of characters. The advantage is we can add fun thematic bonuses that aren't quite so significant and also we can differentiate more between different levels of ability. WS and BS would need to be modified similarly but balance issues shouldn't come up due to the preservation of scale.

Another option would be to switch to 2d6 instead of d12. This would have a much more significant effect on game balance but would offer the following advantages:
-more predictable character performance
-more basic components (d6's are slightly more accessible than d12's)

I think the d12 is much easier to implement.

kenohhkc
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Re: What should go into ItEN 3?

Postby kenohhkc » October 18th, 2012, 4:37 pm

I am all for an update, but please, please, don't weigh this thing down with a bunch of gothicky junk on the page design. Keep it simple and printable. Its more readable and usable, really the hallmark of the game. That doesn't mean it has to inelegant. In fact I think the current formatting is quite elegant in its simplicity. Fonts are readable, there are NO STORIES, just a slick presentation of a slick game.

One of the many great things about this game is its not a GW production from the last 10 years.

Could 2 column and smaller font be explored, sure. Some basic page stuff, maybe. But look at the many, many, many failures at this(most of 3rd edition D&D after the core rulebooks, all of Tomorrows War is unreadable and unusable, the heavy hand of the last many rounds of the codexes). OH, and since I assume you can't use any artwork, we are kinda screwed in having any eye candy.

I applaud your effort and time commitment in continuing with great game.

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Jodrell
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Re: What should go into ItEN 3?

Postby Jodrell » October 18th, 2012, 9:13 pm

kenohhkc wrote:I am all for an update, but please, please, don't weigh this thing down with a bunch of gothicky junk on the page design.


Rest assured, the "gold" edition will be very tastefully done, and if it's too much for your taste, you'll still have the basic version.

kenohhkc wrote:OH, and since I assume you can't use any artwork, we are kinda screwed in having any eye candy.


Well, the cover image was designed for us by a professional artist, and I was thinking of contacting some of the artists on DeviantArt about using some of their fan art. No copyright infringement necessary!

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griffit
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Re: What should go into ItEN 3?

Postby griffit » October 23rd, 2012, 7:00 am

If you want i can make some battle field pictures.
We've got some very decent terrain @ the local club, and with a good camera and some photoshop skills you can get some nice results :)

I'll do some try outs next week

cheerz
guido

Pascal Tognon
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Re: What should go into ItEN 3?

Postby Pascal Tognon » October 28th, 2012, 8:28 pm

More than decent i'd say, Guido 8-)
I'll bring a 'Kodak' as well...

C ya Tuesday!


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