DrVesuvius wrote:Just played two games with my regular oppo. The first was a combined arms game with three units of infantry (one on my side was of automata), one character and a vehicle per side. When that reached a resolution without the vehicles really becoming involved with eachother, we switched to an all-vehicle game with 7-8 vehicles per side.
One change we made before starting was to flip the formation rules from an Activation penalty when not in formation to become an Activation bonus when in formation. Failing Activation in FUBAR is horrendously easy as is and it felt much more balanced to make it slightly easier in the special case of troops in close formation rather than penalising everyone. I'd strongly recommend this approach.
Huh. I disagree. I want to emphasize 19th century battle ideals where the formation was still king until the very end.Adding a bonus instead of a penalty will also disadvantage irregular units where they do not fight in formation by nature.
DrVesuvius wrote:Here's the major rules points/typos that came up
1) The morale test is just plumb broken. "roll 2d6 - Activation. If the result is more than the number of live figures in the unit, it withdraws... <snip>" An elite unit rolling 2D6-2 is therefore more likely to fail than a green unit rolling 2d6-5. I'm sure that's not what you meant, but it's what it says. As a quick and dirty fix, we changed it to "roll 1d6 + Activation", which seemed to work well and I think is mathematically similar to what you intended.
(As an aside, personally I'm not a fan of trying the morale check directly to the number of figures left, as it penalises small units and really ties you down to a standard unit size. An elite 5 man fireteam shouldn't be more fragile in morale terms than a 30 man horde of peasants, but wipe out half the peasants and they still can't fail morale, while if the elites take a single casualty they're in much greater danger of running.)
Yeah, I agree. Try this:
Morale: If a unit fails Activation and has taken casualties, roll Activation again (-1 if below half-strength). On a failure, it withdraws 2d6" away from the nearest visible enemy, or towards their deployment point if there are none visible.
DrVesuvius wrote:2) As the rules are written, once troops are in close combat there is no mechanism for winning or losing the melee, but both sides are locked into melee until one side or the other is either wiped out or voluntarily disengages. Is this intended? Personally we preferred having the chance of one side breaking and running before being wiped out, so we had both sides in a melee make Morale checks at the start of every activation (Personally I wasn't 100% happy with that solution, but at least it stopped the fight from dragging out to the last man standing.
This is in the core Fubar rules - I didn't change anything. I like the idea of making morale checks before the start of each activation though. I shall ponder this.
DrVesuvius wrote:3) Under Suppression "After the next activation roll for that unit, stand the figure up. It is no longer suppressed." Well if you follow this to the letter, the whole "Suppressed figures can't fire" rule never kicks in, because the unit takes suppressions, then on its activation removes them before it gets to do its firing actions. We removed suppressions at the end of the unit's activation, which I think is effectively what you meant.
This is also part of the core FUBAR rules, and I didn't change it. It is possible for a unit to be on guard, be shot at, take suppressions, and then try to use its On Guard to fire at another unit. Models suppressed at that point cannot fire.
DrVesuvius wrote:4) Also under Suppression"You may voluntarily suppress or kill models after moving a unit in order to gain an extra d6" of movement." How many models to get that d6 inches? I'm not sure I get what this rule is representing.
The intent was one suppression/kill per 1d6" extra movement. This is untested, it just seemed a cool thing to add. I have clarified this to be just a single model for a single d6.
DrVesuvius wrote:5) Under the Close Combat section, there's still a reference to "no figure moving more than the rolled movement" that you probably want to correct
I shall correct that.
DrVesuvius wrote:6) Under the Cover section, movement penalties are still in terms of dice rolled.
I have corrected this so that infantry move through cover at normal speed, but vehicles roll breakdown when moving through cover after failing an armor save.
DrVesuvius wrote:7) Under Automata you've got "If an automaton is suppressed, roll another 2d6 - on a 4+ something has malfunctioned." Is that 2d6 right? It makes for only a very slim chance of there not being a malfunction. We thought you might have meant 1d6 (making it 50/50)
2d6 was the original intent, but I like 1d6 better.
DrVesuvius wrote:8) Are vehicles supposed to be able to move and fire? I guess it could be on a case by case basis, but we houseruled no.
The original Fubar rules have vehicles able to move a distance and fire one weapon. Most of the time when I play, my vehicles have all visible crew and it's obvious whether they have enough crew to fire their weapons. I crave your input on how to handle this. I've taken a swag at fixing it in the attached draft.
DrVesuvius wrote:9) On the Vehicle Breakdown table, a lot of the results are "May not do 'x' this activation." Well since the most common reason you'll be rolling on the breakdown table is that you rolled 1 on your activation, you wouldn't be able to do a lot of those things anyway.
Good point. Fixed.
DrVesuvius wrote:10) The vehicle damage sections states that vehicles can't be suppressed, but many of the damage results include "crew suppressed". How is this supposed to work? To keep the game rolling we houseruled a -2 to next activation (based on the similar result from the previous edition of FUBAR) which seemed to work really well.
Yeah, good point. I've changed "crew suppressed" to "1d3 crew hits", to work with existing mechanisms.
DrVesuvius wrote:11) Vehicle Damage Table result 5 - FIRE!. Any thoughts about crew putting fires out? My erstwhile opponent argued that a successful activation and spending an action was enough to extinguish a fire, but as a result of that he never wound up taking any further damage from the fire.
New wording: 5. FIRE! 1D6 crew must fight the fire next activation, and pass an activation test put it out. The roll damage again for each active fire. New fire starts on subsequent roll of 5.
DrVesuvius wrote:Also, while I know if falls outside the remit of the VSF supplement, both my opponent and myself felt that having just the single range for weapons meant there was little motivation to close or manoeuvre. In the vehicle-only game, both of us moved our vehicles into cover just inside maximum range and the game devolved into a slugfest. I suggested making half-range or less into Close Range, giving a +1 or +2 to hit.
I've noticed this in my playing as well - it very easily turns into trench warfare till one side breaks, then the opponent charges in and sweeps the field. I'll try to add effective/max ranges in, but I'm running into space considerations.
DrVesuvius wrote:And somehow the vehicle damage table didn't click with us. I can't put my finger on why not, apart from the points raised above it looks OK, it just didn't feel right.
DrVesuvius wrote:Oh and the vehicle table only has Tracked, Walkers or Flyers, but no Wheeled. We counted them the same as Tracked but gave a big move bonus along roads.
Having apparently just ripped all your hard work to shreds, I have to tell you that we both really enjoyed the game and my opponent is keen to play it again instead of our regular VSF rules. The 2-side combined FUBAR Core/VSF Supplement is a great format, and I hope you take this post in the spirit of constructive criticism. I'm looking forward to seeing any little wrinkles ironed out and giving the game another shot.
All the best
Thank you very much! You've mad this a much better game.