Andy - I hadn't thought about this before. It (automatic suppressed, then kills) does seems like a disadvantage in the situation you describe. I guess I would imagine that better trained troops would adopt an attitude/training that "you win wars by killing your enemy, not getting killed." That is, if it takes them longer to reach an objective due to suppression, that's ok because the unit would be in good shape to take and hold it. A shot-up green unit on the other hand would most likely get bounced out/overrun pretty quickly.
This is where FUBAR needs some detailed examples I think. So, just for fun here goes...
"Example 1: A green unit of eight Guardsmen takes four unsaved hits. Its player takes 1 hit as a suppressed result and three hits as kills. During its next activation it must roll a six to activate: 5+ for green, -1 for the one suppressed Guardsman. It fails its activation roll. The suppressed figure stands up and the unit fires with its five remaining members (five dice rolling for 6+).
Example 2: An elite unit of eight Marines takes four unsaved hits. Its player takes all four hits as suppressed. During its next activation it must roll a six to activate: 2+ for elite, -4 for the four suppressed Marines. It fails its activation roll. The suppressed Marines stand up and the unit fires with its eight members (eight dice rolling for 4+).
Example 3: The next turn, the Guardsmen unit with five remaining figures takes 2 unsaved hits. Its player decides to count these hits as kills. On its next activation, the unit fails, rolling a 4. As the unit is below 50% it must withdraw.
Example 4: The next turn, the Marines, still at full strength, take 2 unsaved hits. The player decides to take both as suppressed. Its player rolls a 3 and fails to activate (elite 2+, suppressed -2). The suppressed figures stand up and the eight marines make one move toward their objective."
Craig did I gets the rules right? I'm just a Green 5+ FUBAR player
Of course, every battle is different, but in these obviously made up examples, elites do well by the suppression rule. But as I've said elsewhere, both having a choice, or making suppression mandatory works for me
andyskinner wrote:I think the problem in having a unit take all suppressions and then casualties is that it introduces a weakness for more experienced troops. In some circumstances, getting more activations may be more important than how many figures you end up with. A large Green unit taking 4 hits could take 1 suppression and 3 casualties and go. Activation would be at 6. A similar Elite unit would take 4 suppressions and no casualties, and would also activate on 6. They now have the same chance of activating, but the Elite has suffered more.
Maybe I've misunderstood something, but that doesn't seem right.
It used to seem odd to me that casualties don't cause more suppression, or that you can't suppress less experienced troops as much as more experienced. What makes it clearer is that FUBAR treats suppression as a bonus rather than a penalty--it allows you to take a suppression instead of a kill, and allows more experienced troops to do more of this. It isn't that the troops are suppressed by the fire--they are suppressed because of their reaction to the fire, keeping themselves alive but down.
I feel that having units take all suppressions and then casualties would turn this bonus for elite units into a penalty in some cases.